Comments on: The Problem of the Community College

By: Florida resident

Florida resident — Mon, 04 May 2009 15:42:10 +0000

Dear Ms. Christina TM !
Thank you for your very valid comments.
Respectfully, Florida resident.

By: Christina TM

Christina TM — Sat, 02 May 2009 21:07:44 +0000

Florida resident,

You are very much correct. There is an idea in education today that all children are equally brilliant, and if we just tell them so enough their performance will reflect it. Unfortunately, that isn’t true. As Russell Kirk said, we are all equal before God but there will always be a hierarchy of talents and abilities.

By denying the variety of abilities we force kids into college who don’t belong there, thereby devaluing the diploma. Our country would be much better off if we simply recognized that some people are not meant to be A students and stop forcing these students into college.

By: Florida resident

Florida resident — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 20:37:09 +0000

Clarification:
When I said “Unfortunately, exactly 50% of kids are below average,” I meant below average with respect to abilities, or to be even more precise, innate abiliites and qualities.
The 4 statements that Ch. Murray makes in the “Real Education” book are:
1. Abilities vary.
2. Half of all children are below average.
3. Too many people are going to college.
4. the future depends on how we educate the academically gifted (here he means not how we technically educate them, but how we challenge them to become wiser persons). I really advise everybody to get this book and to read it; it is reasonably short and it is $14.21 + about $4.00 S. and H. on amazon-dot-com .
Respectfully, Florida resident.

By: Florida resident

Florida resident — Sun, 26 Apr 2009 22:49:22 +0000

Dear participants of the discussion, dear Ms. Christina TM !
Somehow all your discussion is about how well the teachers have taught a student (be it in Community College or during previous 12 years), how persistent is the student. Here is my comment on this, augmenting your discussion.
Charles Murray (of “The Bell Curve” fame) in his recent short book “Real Education” emphasizes that we do not live in Lake Woebedgon (of Prairie Home Companion radio show), where “all children are above average”. Unfortunately, exactly 50% of kids are below average. I have observed this on kids, including the kids of people, whom I love and consider close friends of myself.
Respectfully, Florida resident.

By: Christina TM

Christina TM — Sun, 26 Apr 2009 01:20:40 +0000

Walter Daniels,

You raise some excellent points. I should have been clearer: I was referring to “kids” (for want of a better term), not adult/non-traditional students. I found that the adult students, even those who took a long time to finish their degree due to the responsibilities you mentioned, were much more diligent students overall.

By: Tom Gearing

Tom Gearing — Sat, 25 Apr 2009 22:08:45 +0000

There is no such entity as “The Community College” – there are many hundreds of different Community Colleges, each with its own unique teachers and students. I have taken classes at two and taught at three different campuses, and none of your generalizations are accurate across the board. The “article” you are reacting to isn’t really a scholarly article: it is clearly marked as “Commentary”. If you want to contribute something useful to the discussion, why not do a real research article on the subject?

By: Walter Daniels

Walter Daniels — Sat, 25 Apr 2009 14:56:32 +0000

Much of what you say is probably correct, but you ignore some things. 1) Not everyone can afford to attend classes “full time.” That means they may take Four or more years to get an “Associates Degree (2 year).” Especially if they must work full time to pay living and college expenses. 2) They may not be at all sure “what they want to do.” In which case they may be “sampling” degree curricula. 3) They may be taking classes for persona, and or job enrichment that *do not lead to degrees.*
Four year Colleges and Universities are for those sure of what they want, and Bachelor Degree Programs. Not everyone needs, and or wants such programs.

By: E Anderson

E Anderson — Fri, 24 Apr 2009 22:30:10 +0000

Christina good for you. Like you I graduated from a Community College then was recruited by UC San Diego’s Science College but chose to go a different university for financial reasons. Student’s get out of any class only what they put into it. I have seen this played out on a yearly basis in my High School Science classes. Those who want to do well find a way, those that don’t will parrot every excuse in the book. Good luck in your future.

By: DH

DH — Fri, 24 Apr 2009 21:52:22 +0000

In CA, the tuition at JCs is so low that there is very little loss to the students if they drop out of a class. As a result, many directionless high school grads go to a JC simply because they don’t know what else to do, and it’s a way to at least temporarily satisfy their parents. When the mid-term of Final exam comes, and they know that they will get a bad grade, they simply drop the course, since it didn’t really cost them much money in the first place. Maybe the JCs should charge more money per course up front, and then rebate some of it conditional on their final course grade.